ALCOHOLICS UNANIMOUS

Community Forum For "Alcohol Can Be A Gas" Readers

To discuss the mind bending efficiency and economic potential of the integrated micro farm per the example Blume delivers in Chapter 12...

Share

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

I've read that CO2 in the soil will either outgas; get fixed by underground plant life; or dissolve with contact with water and become carbonic acid, dissolving minerals from the soil.

The concept of CO2 accumulating the soil through the use of sustainable pasturing is that plants balance their roots and their foliage. As the foliage is harvested/grazed/etc, the plants sloughs off roots systems, which decompose into humus & organic matter or even outgas as it is consumed. Over time, the net effect of this pulsing of the plants growing roots then sloughing them off is increasing the quality of the soil, measured in fertility, H20 holding capacity, friability, and soil life.

Reply to This

I dig that - for the CO2 portion. But 60% of the gassing is methane. I think I read somewhere this could get converted to ammonia in the soil??

Reply to This

Is anyone making progress with integrated farming?

Reply to This

It will be at least another year before the soil building part of the biogas plants allows us to plant anything other than cattails. In the meantime the stills are coming along, and the research with the biogas plants continues. I want it all this year, but it wont happen. Things take time, especially when it comes to natural processes, you cant hurry things along without damaging the system.

Reply to This

Tell us more about your project...what scale is it on?

Reply to This

Im assuming you mean my project?

The goal is to make 1000-2000 gallons of fuel per year, convert most/all of my vehicles to ethanol, and in the process heat my house and shop, grow most of our food, never buy propane again, and limit the amount of money we have to spend on energy so I can use it in other areas that benefit me more. I am utterly sick of burning through 25-30 face cord of firewood every winter, and paying $100+ per month for electricity, and buying any propane or gasoline. I know there are better ways to do things, use things more effectively and leave less waste or utilize any waste rather than discard it. Currently two vehicles are on ethanol, and a 3rd is starting testing with E85 this month.

In the search for an energy source to boil water, since we need to do that a few times to make alcohol, I found Jean Pains method of biogas digestion. It produces 140F hot water and enough methane to power a decent sized home for a year. I need two of these biogas plants at least to fulfill my needs of heating the shop, house, and stills. The hot water from them can be used in distillation as well as radiant heat. It takes less energy to heat 140F water to boiling than it does to heat 72F water to boiling, also the 140 temp is right in the range needed for enzymatic conversion of starch to sugar, convenient isn't it?

The leftovers after the biogas plant is done decomposing makes great fertilizer and would help our poor soil be useful for growing something other than Jack Pine. Later plans include a modest greenhouse so we can grow all year. The growing season is short north of the 45th parallel, so a greenhouse is a must. The compost from the biogas plants will be the soil used in the greenhouse, garden, and in cattail beds. Cattails are our fuel stock of choice due to the ease of growing them and the proliferation of the species. You cant kill those things off, they keep coming back, they grow anywhere there is water, and dirty water is better for them. The bonus of cattails having 6 times the starch of a potato makes a bit of a difference as well.

Until I get decent soil to grow anything in, that part of the project will have to wait. Soil building takes time, and we might build more biogas plants just for the soil building. It takes 18 months for them to decompose sufficiently, so next summer is the start of the food production if I can get two or three plants built next month (May).

Both methane and alcohol produce CO2 and H2O when they are burned in an internal combustion engine, convenient isn't it? CO2 from fermentation and running generators on methane/ethanol, will be plumbed to the greenhouse and the cattail beds to enhance growth. Whatever food we cant use/sell or that happens to spoil will go to methane digestion or into the boiler for the still, depending on what it is and how much starch/sugar it has. All electrical generation used to power anything regarding alcohol production will be derived from methane or alcohol generators, the goal is 100% off grid power production. The heat will come from the hot water and burners using methane. The only place oil based products will be used is in the original production of the equipment used to build or produce everything, and most of it is salvaged from the junk yard.

The scale is intentionally small so that it can be accomplished by nearly anyone. Its more about personal energy independence than turning a profit. Of course it can be scaled up, but it can also be scaled down, flexibility is the key. Keep it simple and inexpensive so anyone can copy it easily even on a poorhouse budget.

Reply to This

I look forward to your how to manual on this! So what are you currently feeding into you biogas plant? You might consider growing something in pots in the mean time while you get the soild together. The pots will warm up faster - which you need at that location w/o a greenhouse and you can get a jump on suitable soil building.

Reply to This

The manual could be War and Peace huge or it could be a pamphlet, depends on how much the person following along knows and how much of the project they are attempting. I really need to set up a web page for it, that will come in time. The automotive portion of it could be a book in itself, same with the methane. David already did the alcohol book.. :)

Right now I have spoiled fruit and veggies from the local grocer steeping in water, to get the starter bacteria it needs to sit for a couple months. I started it in January,and it is just now thawing, so it should be ready to go when I get a few loads of wood chips. There is a more detailed explanation of the biogass project in the biogas to biofuel group as well as my blog page on here. The next few plants will be grass clippings, sawdust, and other yard waste to discover how well those work.

This year we aren't planting much, since most of my time is going to the ethanol end of the project. The methane project needs to be in operation first since the plan is to use it to make ethanol, and the soil building as well. I am at least three years from doing anything with a greenhouse, due to finances, unless someone wants to build one for me.

I do 99% of the work, 100% of the research and testing, and that includes converting and rebuilding cars, engines, and generators, as well as building the stills and planning everything out. As mentioned earlier its boring working alone, and somewhat slow, but I am not a fan of big groups or crowds. The big project for the month of April is getting two project vehicles to the point where they can sit outside and take up much less space in the shop. Being a gearhead is what started all of this, and I had automotive things going on when I started the ethanol journey, and they were the reason I started down this path. Thus I still have to spend time with the cars to keep my focus over the months when I can do little else.

I grew up on a farm and we had a huge garden, my mom would can quite a bit and we always had fresh food through the summer, having a few hundred head of cattle was nice too. I dont have any desire to be a farmer, but I like the benefits of that lifestyle, particularly the food. Our yard was bigger than most acreages and we had an orchard with fruit trees, a 40x20 patch of strawberries, and rows upon rows of other stuff. Needless to say I missed all of that when I went to the USAF.

Reply to This

Classic. Keep us posted in due course. What will u ultimately use as feedstock to get off the grid?

Reply to This

Since I live in a forest, we have an abundance of wood chips, sawdust, and the landscapers in town pay to get rid of grass clippings so we can get those cheap too. Since I am a gearhead I can build things with engines, and a generator isnt that difficult to build. Eventually we will use methane from the biogas plants built from wood waste to run engines powering generators and heating water at the same time.

So everything will be solar powered since the sun grows trees and cattails, and we get heat, CO2, ethanol, and methane in addition to electricity. =P It is more than just farming, and parts of this idea are adaptable to urban environments, how much people can do depends on the space they have available and the ordinances/laws they live with.

Biomass and weeds, if you cant get rid of them, use them.

Reply to This

I can dig that! A lot of people sleep on the usefulness of weeds. They are extremely efficient as extracting nutrients from the most barren situations. Imagine a prized strawberry or tomatoe plant growing from a crack in a sidewalk with no soil, not planted seed, no regulat watering, not fertilizing. It is really quite amazing. Quiet as it is kept, if you can figure out a way to eliminate seeds sprouting, grass and weeds are some of the best fertilizers around. Grass digs down some 14 feet and pulls up prehistoric minerals that offset the (recent) effect of topsoil loss.

Reply to This

Any news?

Reply to This

RSS

Badge

Loading…

© 2009   Created by Randy on Ning.   Create a Ning Network!

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Privacy  |  Terms of Service

Sign in to chat!