SF Bay Area Ethanol Fuel Interest Group

Comment by Brian O'Toole on October 22, 2010 at 4:17pm

I'm interested in producing cattail for water remediation, but also for alcohol production. We have such high levels of nitrogen in our local water, cattail would be perfect for it. Is anyone interested in such a project?

Comment by Bob Glicksman on October 28, 2010 at 11:25am

Several of us met in Marin last Tuesday -- thanks Russ and Laurie for organizing this. It was good to meet other "ethanolics" and we had productive discussions about organizing to actually do things. Some of the ideas and actions that came out of the meeting were:
- research and education: create a web site, join chat groups and correct misinformation there, pool knowledge and skills, network.

- learn to produce alcohol fuel: pool knowledge, skills, funding, and enthusiasm to actually make motor fuel from food waste (like stale doughtnuts).

- learn more about engine modifications to run on ethanol. Investigate the best ways to do this and pros and cons of each (cheater kits, aftermarket programmable ECUs, etc.)

- understand legal implications of making alcohol fuel, distributing/selling the product, modifying engines to run on alcohol, etc. A lot of us felt contrained by not knowing what can be done legally (and how - proper permits, etc.), so we need to find out.

We divided up into smaller working groups to get these activities going.

I will host a meeting for interested people here in San Jose, hopefully sometime in November or December (difficult timing due to the holidays). Look here for further information.

Comment by David Wayne White on November 5, 2010 at 10:18am

Here's a very interesting paper on the dismal future that awaits electric vehicles - strengthening the argument for ethanol. http://etcgreen.com/index.php?view=article&catid=46%3Ageneral&a...

Comment by Christopher Epperson on November 5, 2010 at 2:46pm

This article sheds light on our increasing dependence on advanced energy technology built upon rare earth minerals. Therefore, we humans are setting ourselves up for the short term impact of electric vehicles and hybrids at the cost of reduced Solar PV, Wind and any other energy technologies dependent upon rare earth minerals.

I do see, however, how Ethanol can be a positive player in a truly 100% recyclable transportation fuel economy. First, Ethanol can blend with Biodiesel to create a greater supply. Second, engines that are tuned to run on Ethanol compete quite favorably with Diesel/Biodiesel. Finally, Ethanol is uniquely suited to be the renewable transition fuel of choice since variable compression engine (VCE) technology allows vehicle manufacturers to create an engine that can run on gasoline at a lower compression or run on Ethanol at higher compressions maximizing the benefits of both fuels today using the same engine. This would allow consumers to choose the best fuel at the pump based upon price and performance. Eventually, as gasoline and diesel prices rise, Ethanol along with Biodiesel would become the fuels of choice for gas powered and diesel powered engines respectively.

Comment by Christopher Epperson on November 5, 2010 at 9:31pm

What follows are an assortment of links regarding Ethanol engines as follows:


Technology Review: Blogs: Potential Energy: Ethanol-Powered Car Wins the Automotive X-Prize
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/energy/25766/


Alcohol Engines and Energy Independence
http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/alcoholengines.aspx


New engine design adjusts compression to meet driving conditions
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/success/vcr3_29_0...


Investigation of Knock Limited Compression Ratio of Ethanol Gasoline Blends
http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2010-01-0619.pdf


ECONOMICAL, HIGH-EFFICIENCY ENGINE TECHNOLOGIES FOR ALCOHOL FUELS
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/presentations/epa-fev-isaf-no55.pdf


MCE-5 Variable Compression Ratio Engine: 1.5-Liter With Torque Like a V8!
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/mce5-variable-compress-rati...


Variable Compression Ratio = VCR
http://www.gomecsys.com/uk/the_goengine_variable_compression_ratio....


Variable Compression Ratio Piston-Crank System
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/INTRODUCTION/DETAILS/VCR...

Comment by Bob Glicksman on November 7, 2010 at 9:11pm

I'm way behind, and just got around to reading the article that David posted (thanks, Dave). Wow -- there are tons of issues presented for EVs in the article, and yet it doesn't even address the largest issue -- what the REAL EV fuel is. Yes, EVs have no tailpipe emissions (indeed, no tailpipe). But the electricity for the EV has to come from somewhere. Yes, we do have lots of surplus GENERATING capacity for overnight charging of EVs, but generating capacity is NOT the same as "free energy". You still have to run the powerplant - on something. In the USA, today, 52% of our electricity is generated from coal. So in a very real sense, an EV is a coal burning car! Pollution free, indeed! EVERYONE shoud read the book "Energy Victory" by Robert Zubrin -- for many, many reasons. But one small thing that Dr. Zubrin points out in the book is that if you really want a coal burning car, it is more energy efficient (and less pollution) to process the coal into methanol and run the car on methanol, than it is to burn the coal to produce electricity for an EV. AND, methanol, being another alcohol with similar properties to ethanol (lower energy density), can run in a flex fuel vehicle, eliminating the problem of the limited range of the EV. EVs (as opposed to hybrids) are pretty much of a scam. They are not going to solve any problem - not in the next 50 years, anyway.

Comment by David Wayne White on November 9, 2010 at 4:42pm

Found this link that tracks Flex Fuel Vehicles for sale on Ebay Motors. http://www.alternative-fuel-vehicles.org/Cars-and-Trucks/e85-vehicles

Comment by Brian O'Toole on January 3, 2011 at 11:02am

Congratulations to John Laird for his appointment as Secretary of Natural Resources in the new Brown Administration.  John lives within a mile of David Blume and I'm sure will be very open to new ideas about alternative fuels.  He is the former Chair of the Assembly Budget Committee so he not only has a sense of what should be done, but what can be done.  Its a great selection by our new Governor and a great role for John Laird.

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