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Erik Weaver - Springfield, Missouri, USA

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What do you have to say about Dave's book "Alcohol Can Be A Gas"?

Quite interesting. I've gotten through the "first read" of the 600+ page book. I liked the DVD too. However, I wish people would *stop* saying it'll tell you how to convert a diesel. It will not. Nor will it tell you how to build a still, however it will provide you enough information to determine what type and size of distillation still you wish to have, and then you can find specific plans elsewhere. In terms of overall layout, and aiming for a integrated system (there is no such thing as "waste" -- only unrealized resources!) I think he gives the reader tons of good information to think about. He also points out a number of stumbling blocks one might think of on their own -- at least not before tripping! Overall, a very good resource!

About Me:

Fat old truck driver. Blunt at times. Occasionally outspoken. Libertarian & *Strong* Constitutionalist. Interested in biodiesel, solar power, chess, and amateur radio. Would like to start up a co-op and grow that into a small business and stop driving all over the country. One of your Friendly Forum Moderators (until they wise up anyway! ;)

I am located in:

Springfield, MO

Website:

http://www.n0ew.org/ethanol/

Stuff and What-Not

Regarding databases of any kind, I don't see that as an option at this site. Nor is posting papers, etc. I don' t think the person that created this group gave thought to trading of information amongst ourselves. This is a "social" program not an information dissembling program, and as such won't do us much good when it comes to efficiently trading information with one another.

This is like a giant hall or coffee shop. We wander around and overhear conversations but we can't go to an Info Booth to get pamphlets. But there are other yahoo groups discussing making ethanol fuel, and they have these abilities we lack here.

"alcoholfuel" is the group I find the most useful so far. It is one of the "tech" groups at yahoo, and easy to find if you search for that title, or just follow this link:

( http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/alcoholfuel/ )

Good luck!
Erik in MIssouri

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Good book!

"Making Pure Corn Whiskey" by Ian Smiley, and available from Amphoria-Society:

http://www.amphora-society.com/books.html

Actually, I've read all three of their books and I recommend them all!

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The news services I found via a quick Google search, which also allow one to search their archives (they aren't much use to us "flat landers" without that ability)...

The Associated Press:
http://www.ap.org/

Reuters:
http://www.reuters.com/

Talk Radio News Service:
http://talkradionews.com/
I've never seen this before. But if it really is akin to Talk Radio you'll get some of the "other side of the story" which you won't see on USA-TV or read in the USA newspapers.

BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
Especially important for those of us in the USA. The BBC talks about world-events from a perspective Americans almost never hear (and which we should IMO!)

Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/services/
Big Business.

Bloomburg - Worldwide News:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/worldwide/
Big Business.

The United Nations:
http://www.un.org/News/
Listed to be more complete. I expect however this is mostly about how Evil 1st-World Nations need to raise taxes to support More-Deserving 3rd-World Nations (but really just pay-off dictators for a cushy kick-back). Then again, maybe that is just my Cynicism showing. Decide for yourself!

Anyway, all of these had search fields when I looked at their pages (some were hidden in plain sight) and each one that I tried had pages and pages of stories purporting to report on the search terms "ethanol food prices" so I think you'll have quite a few hours of reading by the fireside ready for you anytime you wish!

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Here's the federal site:

http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/small_alcohol_fuel_plant_packet.shtml

Small Alcohol Fuel Plant (AFP):

"An Alcohol Fuel Plant (AFP) is one that will produce, process and store, and use or distribute distilled spirits to be used exclusively for fuel use. A small AFP is one that will produce and receive a combination of 10,000 or less proof gallons of spirits in a calendar year."

They have several PDFs available which should provide the information required to comply at the federal level. Each state then may have its own additional requirements.

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Comment Wall (16 comments)

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At 2:28pm on February 1, 2009, dogbreath said…: Look for the recipe in the files section, put together by "Vicktor"

At 7:32am on February 1, 2009, dogbreath said…: Have you seen the "econo-wash" recipe for sugar based wash? It's at the alcohol fuel yahoo site. Going to give a scaled down version at test run at the same time I am testing the dextrose based wash. Will let you know results.

At 6:08am on January 28, 2009, dogbreath said…: That's exactly why I am starting to learn the process with sugar- no variables and repeatable results.
Emailed Riku with a question, he responded and confirms that multiple small columns are the way to go for high output in a short time.

At 3:47pm on January 27, 2009, dogbreath said…: Erik,
finally was approved by Dawn Foods as cash customer to buy dextrose; will be picking up 150# of it on Fri AM and starting one batch of wash using yeast from Mile Hi that is supposed to create 23% ABV. Will let you know results.
Brian

At 10:20am on December 28, 2008, dogbreath said…: Erik,
Have you had a chance to run any batches thru your PDA-1 yet?
Going to start a batch of wash made from dextrose+Liquor Quik Alcobase extreme 23% today from HileHi Distilling; will let you know how that goes.....

At 7:26am on December 9, 2008, HB Player said…: Weaver, you sparked off a good bit of comments. I am also an OTR O/O.
Liberterian also. I have land and am willing to try this. I found it useful to go in with a car mechanic. He is interested in doing conversions on engines. I have some Heating and Air experience and gardening that I find useful. I gues where I am at in the low country of SC I may go with cattails. I have a large pond on my site.

At 12:29pm on November 25, 2008, dogbreath said…: Let me know how you feel about their product after you have run a few batches through it. I am going to modify my still unassembled Charles 804 to have no coil in the lower section as Amphora suggests, and may even get crazy and route the top coil thru the top cap instead of thru the sides. Also planning on purchasing parts to assemble a second still along their guidelines and run them in parallel to increase output/reduce total time. Will let you know how things shape up.

At 9:03pm on October 16, 2008, Erik Weaver said…: This is a very interesting web site:

http://www.amphora-society.com/

I have thoroughly enjoyed their books "The Compleat Distiller" and "Designing and Building Automatic Stills." I highly recommend them both (I haven't read the other one yet).

I am strongly considering buying their PDA-1 with the extra column. About $500, but it seems to be a good value. Max output is said to be 3 liters (3/4 gallon) per hour after it reaches equilibrium and all is running properly.

I first thought we had a horrible exchange rate and their $25 book was going to cost me $40 USD. That was false. It cost me $25 (plus S&H).

They have also been responding to email and seem friendly, knowledgeable, and informative.

At 5:55pm on September 27, 2008, dogbreath said…: Erik,
If you haven't already done so, check out: http://www.amphora-society.com/ and click on the news button to see an impressive high volume ethanol still that they are developing; might help you on you road to a new career.
Brian

At 8:42am on September 23, 2008, Erik Weaver said…: MISSOURI ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE -- OPINION

http://ago.mo.gov/opinions/1979/132-79.htm

Opinion No. 132-79
Topics:

LIQUOR.
LICENSES.
Summary conclusion

Ethanol used solely as a fuel for motor vehicles is not an "intoxicating liquor" as defined in § 311.020, RSMo 1978. It is our further opinion that individuals who manufacture ethanol on their own land solely for the purpose of providing fuel for motor vehicles are not required to be licensed and regulated under Chapter 311, RSMo as long as the alcohol produced at the facility is denatured by some means.
Contents of opinion

July 18, 1979

Honorable James L. Russell
Representative
District 6
State Capitol Building
Room 400
Jefferson City, Missouri 65101

Dear Representative Russell:

This is in response to your request for an official opinion of this office concerning the following questions:

"Is ethanol which is used as fuel for motor vehicles an 'intoxicating liquor' under section 311.020, RSMo 1978?

"Must private individuals who manufacture ethanol on their own land and solely for the purpose of providing fuel for their own motor vehicles be licensed and regulated under Chapter 311, RSMo, specifically section 311.180, RSMo 1978?"

Pursuant to § 311.050 RSMo 1978, anyone who distills intoxicating liquor in Missouri must first obtain a license from the Supervisor of Liquor Control. This statute provides as follows:

"It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, partnership or corporation to manufacture, sell or expose for sale in this state intoxicating liquor, as defined in section 311.020, in any quantity, without taking out a license."

The cost of this license will vary depending upon the alcoholic content of the liquor which is produced. Section 311.180, RSMo provides in part:

"Manufacturers, wholesalers, solicitors-license fees.-1. No person, partnership, association of persons or corporation shall manufacture, distill, blend, sell or offer for sale intoxicating liquor within this state at wholesale or retail, or solicit orders for the sale of intoxicating liquor within this state without procuring a license from the supervisor of liquor control authorizing them so to do. For such license there shall be paid to and collected by the director of revenue annual charges as follows:

"(2) For the privilege of manufacturing in this state intoxicating liquor containing not in excess of twenty-two percent of alcohol by weight the sum of one hundred dollars;

"(3) For the privilege of manufacturing, distilling or blending intoxicating liquor of all kinds within this state the sum of two hundred dollars;

"2. Provided further, however, that solicitors, manufacturers and blenders of intoxicating liquor shall not be required to take out a merchant's license for the sale of their products at the place of manufacture or in quantities of not less than one gallon."

"Intoxicating liquor" as used in Chapter 311 is defined in § 311.020, RSMo 1978. This statute provides:

"The term 'intoxicating liquor' as used in this chapter, shall mean and include alcohol for beverage purposes, alcoholic, spirituous, vinous, fermented, malt, or other liquors, or combination of liquors, a part of which is spirituous, vinous or fermented, and all preparations or mixtures for beverage purposes, containing in excess of three and two-tenths percent of alcohol by weight."

If alcohol is distilled solely for the purpose of providing fuel for motor vehicles, then such alcohol is not being used for "beverage purposes" and therefore would not be considered "intoxicating liquor" as used in Chapter 311, RSMo 1978. A similar conclusion was reached by this office in Op. Atty. Gen. No. 37, Mueller, 1-17-79 concerning the application of the State liquor laws to wines used solely for sacramental purposes.

We note, however, that the alcohol which is obtained directly from the distillation process is capable of being used not only for experimental fuel purposes, but also for consumption as a beverage. For this reason, the Division of Liquor Control requires that all individuals who distill alcohol for such experiments denature the alcohol as soon as it emerges from the distillation process. One means of denaturing this product is by the addition of gasoline. If the alcohol is rendered unfit for human consumption by some means such as this, the Division of Liquor Control does not require any type of license for such experiments. Should the alcohol not be denatured by some means, the Division of Liquor Control requires that the individual comply with the provisions of section 311.180 supra.

A similar approach to this subject has been taken by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. In ATF Release P 5000.1, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms allows for the experimental use of alcohol as a fuel product only at the plant premises where the alcohol is produced. Any alcohol removed from the premises must be tax-paid at the rate of $10.50 per proof gallon. If the alcohol is denatured prior to its removal from the plant premises, no federal excise tax will be assessed.
CONCLUSION

Therefore, it is the opinion of this office that ethanol used solely as a fuel for motor vehicles is not an "intoxicating liquor" as defined in § 311.020, RSMo 1978. It is our further opinion that individuals who manufacture ethanol on their own land solely for the purpose of providing fuel for motor vehicles are not required to be licensed and regulated under Chapter 311, RSMo as long as the alcohol produced at the facility is denatured by some means.

Very truly yours,

John Ashcroft
Attorney General